Natasha Levy: 0:12

Welcome to we Can Solve this, a podcast where we demystify research concepts, ensure evidence-based best practices, innovation and solutions. We hope that the ideas shared here help build thriving communities wherever you are. Our guest today is Dr Aisha Bailey. Aisha is a scientist and an entrepreneur. She is the founder and principal consultant at MLR Technology and Innovation, where she focuses on product and service development and capacity building in life sciences, health and wellness. Aisha work includes the application of biotechnological and agro-processing methods to develop novel products such as foods and pharmaceuticals and cosmeceuticals, using medicinal plants and local agricultural inputs. She's an adjunct lecturer at the University of the West Indies and runs Skincare Startup, a boutique entity helping people start, build, launch and grow profitable skincare and haircare brands and businesses without the overwhelm and complexity. Please help me welcome Aisha.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 1:26

How are you today, Aisha? I am well, Natasha. Thank you so much for having me.

Natasha Levy: 1:31

Wow, that was quite an introduction. I'm really eager to jump into the meat of everything. Yes, let's. So we are here to really demystify the process of being successful in the agri-processing business, right? So I think a good place to start would be based on your experience in the industry. How would you define agri-business, and is it the same as agri-processing?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 2:01

That's a good one. So agribusiness is, if we were to go back to you know, a much darker history. Our communities are really built on agriculture as an industry. We all grew up with family. You know farmers, fisher folk and it's a very, very important part of our development and will continue to be so. However, we have struggled to rapidly innovate in the agricultural sector, and one of the key components of being able to innovate in this sector is that you have to have formal structures around agriculture. The truth is, anybody can farm produce and bring it to a market, but if it is not in a structured, formal business organization, in a structured, formal business organization, as with any other organization, then you're going to find that the prospects for advancement is going to be very, very, very slim. And agribusiness is really about forming structures around being able to bring crops, animal products, to market able to bring crops, animal products, to market. Agri-processing is really a subset of that. It's really about how you take raw materials and give it a little bit of oomph. So how do you get from green banana to banana chips? It is agri-processing that allows that kind of transition, and any expert in the agricultural field will tell you that the man or woman selling banana chips is making far more from dollars to productivity. He's making far more selling banana chips than selling green bananas. And that is exactly what drew me to this area.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 4:04

I am a scientist, I'm a biochemist and zoologist. I started really in fisheries, looking at artisanal fisheries, and it was something I noticed. Artisanal fisheries, yes, yes. So I worked very closely with fishermen in Black River.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 4:33

I was looking particularly on an invasive fish and how that affected the current fisheries and seeing how hard it was for these people who go out five o'clock in the morning on boats all day, coming at two o'clock and they were still struggling to feed themselves, to feed their families, to send their children to school.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 4:55

There was just something fundamentally that seemed wrong to me. Right, if you're working this hard, why is it still hard for you to send your children to school? And a part of that is that, again, a lot of the businesses, the fisher folk, the farmers, are so focused on the raw agricultural commodity. They catch a fish and they sell it as is, and that will always command a much lower price in the marketplace. If you are adding value to that, you can command so much more. You can also position yourself with a very unique product that no one else has, and at that time I wasn't quite sure how I could play a role in that, but I know it was something I was very committed to how I could use my knowledge and my capacity as a scientist to help fisher folk, to help farmers, to help small enterprises, micro enterprises, sole entrepreneurs to add value to their own ideas and to add value to the crops and the produce that they currently have.

Natasha Levy: 6:06

So what I'm hearing is that you have an interesting perspective because you are coming into this conversation not only with your scientific background. You know you have letters behind your name. You actually have worked in this field of agribusiness and agri-processing, but in the intro I realized that you're also an entrepreneur as well. So you come into this conversation mixing the business side of things with also the scientific side of things. So, from that perspective, if you were to look at what's currently happening now in the country in terms of where we are with agribusiness and agri-processing, what would you say? How would you sum up the situation? How would you sum up the landscape?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 6:53

Yeah, very interesting question and, I won't lie, it has been an area I think I struggled with as a scientist. As a scientist, you know, many of my colleagues, you know, you know, would tell you there is, when you're a scientist, there is kind of one pathway, right, when you're a bright scientist, there's kind of one pathway or two pathways. You know, you're either going to be a medical doctor or you're going to be an engineer. And for me, I was always interested in the medical space, but, you know, not not to be a practitioner but to be a researcher, right. So I ignored, you know, maybe, all my best senses about going to medical school.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 7:33

I decided I was going to do research and even upon deciding to do a PhD, it still wasn't terribly clear what role I could have in the national development context. Because, as scientists, you know, we're all used to, you know us being in Brightstream and you're in a special class. You know, in high school, you know there's always a big narrative and you got all the awards. But for me at least, I still felt as if I wasn't part of a much bigger discussion. What is my role? It's very clear what the role of a doctor is. It's very clear what the role of a policeman is, what's the role of a scientist in the Jamaican development context, and it's really something that we're not really even taught at the university. Well, I speak from my experience as a university graduate. It's not something that's really fully articulated. So when I eventually got into the innovation policy space when I worked with the National Commission on Science and Technology, there was a light bulb moment. At that time, I had a responsibility of working with an amazing team of policymakers and scientists on developing the science, technology and innovation policy for Jamaica, and I was exposed to so many different strategies and approaches on how we could ensure that science played a role and articulated what that role was, and I'm really very grateful for that opportunity. It's that opportunity that has led me here and it is very important as businesses.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 9:13

So if you have a farm, if you have a hairdressing salon, it is very important that everyone understands the role of a scientist in advancing their business, and a part of that is really product development.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 9:32

A big part of product development is coming up with things that are you know, if you think about the Big Mac or if you think about, you know, the beef patty right, it's a very, very, very, very specific recipe.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 9:46

And that recipe that makes a juicy beef beef patty not another patty is because there are some very specific combinations of ingredients and qualities that makes that patty a patty. All successful products on the market have to go through that exercise and that exercise is a very scientific one and unfortunately, a lot of the micro-enterprises that are trying to get into this space, putting new products on the market, just simply don't. They don't stick to or adhere to developing products in a very specific way, with safety standards, with quality standards, right. So my role is to help anyone. You don't have to be a scientist, you just have to appreciate the role of the scientific approach to developing new products and I think that will definitely help advance the agricultural sector, it will help advance the tourism sector, it will help advance the manufacturing sector If the scientific approach is better leveraged as we try to take new products to market.

Natasha Levy: 11:00

So the absence of the scientific approach or not really utilizing the scientific approach in product development is probably the thing that needs improving. Then when you talk about how can we do better in agri-processing and agri-business, so that for you, is the problem statement. The problem statement would be that not enough attention is being placed to a particular approach, to leveraging, to moving from basic inputs, to creating value added.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 11:39

Yeah, absolutely, and I see it time and time again. You know with, with, with, with. You know whether it is clients, whether you know I'm asked to sit on a panel to judge products. You see it, you can tell those businesses that are most poised to have successful products on the market the market. They have a very. This is not that they're necessarily scientists, right, because not only scientists can actually use a scientific approach. A scientific approach is independent of what degree you have, so I'm going to stick a pin there.

Natasha Levy: 12:15

So when you talk about the scientific approach, aisha, what does that mean?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 12:19

It means a very methodological approach. Got it, Got it. Very methodological approach, Got it, Got it. So it is. It is. It has very set, specific rules based on facts and everything is documented and tested. That's really the scientific approach. So you know, as Jamaicans, we're very, you know, we're very, we're very creative, right, and we come up with really amazing things just from our guts and that's very important to the creative process. But if you're talking about scaling products, if you're going to develop a soap that has charcoal and Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee and lemongrass from St Elizabeth, whatever it is that you're going to develop that Jamaican creativity based on our own history and on our own stories that makes you come up with that idea. At some point. You have to shift from that emotional place and have a very strict methodology to developing that soap with Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee, charcoal and lemongrass. And that scientific approach takes patience.

Natasha Levy: 13:23

So I'm going to play devil's advocate. So I'm going to play devil's advocate. I'm going to play devil's advocate. How would I know about this scientific approach? How would I know that I need to have a particular methodology to it? I would have grown up seeing my grandmother in the kitchen putting together her jams. I would have grown up just being exposed to simple home remedies. So you know, if I'm that farmer or if I'm that fisherman in Black River, how do I make that connection? How do I know what I don't know? You know, how do I realize or get the information that you know? This approach is what's needed to kind of take things forward.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 14:11

That's a very good question. It's a difficult question to answer. So I think there are two ways. You will know that and it's really answering. How do I know that something is missing, right, okay, and oftentimes that something missing can only be solved once you go through a scientific method. So there are two ways.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 14:30

Yes, you know, we're used to seeing grandma, you know, make her porridge and she just I mean, I use this example because I'm a big porridge lover my grandmother makes the best porridge and I try to recreate it and it just never happened. It never happens. And then you know, when you ask her what she puts in, she kind of never gives you a very direct answer that you can replicate anything. You know, I don't know if it's by design, that grandmas just don't want nobody stealing them recipes. That recipe is going to die with them, or what is going to die with them, or what. But one way you're going to know that you need something else is if the quality of the product is not always the same every time you make it, it means that your method isn't well established. Okay, grandma Tu was a scientist, is a scientist, right, she has a methodology. She's just not sharing it with you. The next way you're going to know is that if you're serious about business, you need to start having business discussions. So when you realize you have this amazing porridge blend and all you need to do is to add water and you'll get this perfect mix and it's something you want to put on the market, you have to have a discussion with somebody who understands business right. So this can be JBDC, for example. You go to JBDC, you go to your parish council and you say, you know, if you have a RADA office in your community, you go to them and you say you know, I have this particular recipe and I feel this is something that would do well on the market. What do I need to do? And right away they will start to shed light on. Well, you're going to need a proper formulation. You know, and you're going to realize something is missing a proper formulation. What is that?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 16:14

Now, in the advent of the internet, you can find lots of basic information about developing formulations and standardizing products. But even if you don't want to do that, the next question is how do I do that? And there are government agencies that will help you to solve those problems. If you go to a RADA office. They will probably advise that you go to the Bureau of Standards. Bureau of Standards may eventually advise you go to the Ministry of Health, and the truth is is that you have to be prepared to now do the things that are not as fun.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 16:47

And I tell people that's my job. My job is to do the parts of the business that most of my bosses don't like to do. They don't want to talk to regulators. They don't want to fill out crazy forms. They don't want to test the process over and over and over again. They don't want to document the process over and over and over again. They don't want to document the process over and over again. I'm the boring scientist that will do the boring work, but the boring work is necessary for your business to advance.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 17:13

All the top brands that you see on the market the True Juice. Think about True Juice. It's literally orange juice in a bottle. That's a household name. That agri processing at its best, and it's not that true juice can make a better orange juice than me or a better orange juice than you. True juice has just invested in this quality, standardization, and that is what the rest of us will not do. So my job is to help anybody. And when I say anybody, right, I want to demystify this idea that if you're a little fisherman in St Elizabeth, you too can't have an amazing you know dried fish cake on the market. You absolutely can.

Natasha Levy: 17:59

I'm really intrigued by that. Just, you know that dried fish cake sounds very appealing. So, to recap, as we've been going along, so we're really having a look at what does the product development space need? This is the agro processing and agro business space need to thrive, and so far we've identified two I want to say a pair of twins, because they go hand in hand.

Natasha Levy: 18:26

So first thing was think about having a methodology, think about this, what you coin as a scientific approach, but just being very systematic about how you're going about creating this product. And then the next thing you mention is seek advice. You know, you may not know how to do the things, but what I'm hearing is that there are lots of agencies, entities, bodies, organizations out there that can help you understand how to go about this methodology or just understanding what the steps are. So we've identified two. So, after I have this brilliant idea, I want to do these fish cakes right, and I realize that there's a process that I need to go through to standardize, as you mentioned, and I probably have reached out to a few organizations to get some guidance in terms of how to do this.

Natasha Levy: 19:23

What comes next, like how do I go about, or what would you recommend or what do you see as the next steps or the missing pieces? You know, maybe from a training or a marketing perspective? I mean, because it is a business and unfortunately, if you build it they won't necessarily come. You have to. You know you could have the best fish cakes in the world, but if no one knows about it, so is that also a missing?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 19:50

piece? Absolutely, and Natasha, I'm so glad you said that you know I'm a scientist. I have absolutely no formal business training. Okay, I think I did one, one credit course because I needed an extra credit for my PhD in human resource organizational development, something of that nature. It was very interesting, but that's as far as my business acumen go. But one thing I can tell you I see for sure of all my clients, those that have the most promise and make the, and I consider myself an innovation consultant, so I'm taking new products in the early stages and launching them on the market. And those clients that rapidly advance in the marketplace are the ones that answer that very question that you have. They're just not going to come if you build it. They almost start not from a product perspective but from a people perspective. That's interesting. They know who will benefit from their product very early on and they can almost clearly define who that person is. And I'm a scientist. I can't necessarily help you with that, but it is something I definitely see and I would say absolutely you have to.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 21:12

As creators, as creatives, we tend to be very and I consider myself a creative, even though I'm a scientist. Right Is that we tend to be very self-absorbed in what's great. We are the end all of what needs to happen in this world. My creation is the end-all. It's the best thing since sliced bread. It's the best thing. And yeah, no, you know it is only the customer that pays for your goods. That's how you know it's good when somebody pays for it goods, that's how you know it's good when somebody pays for it. And I do think it's a very, very important component of the innovation process of getting new products to market is knowing who's going to buy, understanding your customer. Understanding your customer, having those discussions early. And you know, like the iPhone model, the iPhone is even available. People are lining up outside the store to buy and I even recommend this to a lot of my, my, my clients to start selling.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 22:14

Start, start telling that story, no, before you even have a product. And let them line up and wait because it somehow gives. When you tell that story around, bringing this new idea to market, that makes them salivate even more. Let them wait. Start selling that story about those fish cakes. Right, which fish is the best fish? You don't have to need to have a fish cake to tell them that this is the best fish, and this is the reason why I'm using this fish for this fish cake. And then you start to somehow.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 22:48

You know it takes about 90 days for people to trust what you're saying. 90 days of sharing your ideas. People just assume you're an expert. So 90 days and talk to people about these fish cakes. They're going to already make up their mind. You will sell the best fish cakes and in that 90 days, while you're talking about it, we're developing it and we're getting it standardized and we're getting it compliant and we're helping ensure that you have processes to ensure that when you're making those cakes, you're making it in a clean and safe environment. We're doing the submissions to the regulatory agencies to ensure that everything is standardized and your label is right. So by the time you are ready to sell fish cakes, people are lined up and ready to wait and they trust you. Aisha, I'm ready for the fish cakes You're ready for the fish cakes.

Natasha Levy: 23:34

I am so ready for the fish cakes.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 23:36

Yes, absolutely.

Natasha Levy: 23:39

We Can Solve. This is brought to you by Solution Space Consulting. Have a podcast idea, need editorial support for books or other publications? Solution Space will produce your podcasts and take care of your publications. Visit solutionspacecocom so that we can create wonderful work together. Do you know what's available in terms of financing options? Because it takes money to start up a business, whether it's a business in, you know, agri-processing or just generally? Do you find that financing for businesses in agri-processing is challenging? Meaning is it that you know banks are more willing to fund something in IT or something in like another area and that there's a particular challenge with getting financing if you want to start in agri-processing or you want to launch an agri-processing business?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 24:34

Yeah, I think so. I think because development of new products and getting them to market is such a complex area. It's such a complex area, it's such a complex commodity that you know financials assume there's far more risk in this space. But, notwithstanding, there are facilities out there, especially, you know, the development banks, dbj, for example. You know the development banks, dbj, for example. They are giving priority focus to agriculture and agribusiness and you see a lot of that in the narrative If you're in tourism, manufacturing, ict, agribusiness, climate change. This is where we're focusing. So I believe there is certainly funding out there that is available.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 25:31

In my experience and I won't say my experience is like every other is that whenever the opportunities come up and I made the effort to apply, I'm normally successful. Right, that may have to do more with with the fact that you know people have an assumption you're a PhD, so you must know what you're doing. But I don't think it's only it's a PhD. Again, you know I understand who I'm selling to, so I can speak their language, and if you, developing your Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee soaps, know who you're selling to, you know it is a much easier sell. You know, I think you know we do ourselves a disservice by, almost right out the gate, we tell ourselves we're going to lose, so we don't even, we don't have a lineup to race, to run the race. You know, and I think a lot of people in this space do that you know so many. You know I've come across so many farmers, for example, who love this idea of developing products, but they kind of just right out of the gate. I'm no scientist, so it's not for me. You know, they almost you know, and the truth is the scientist is one tiny, tiny, tiny part of the process. You know you have land, you have, you know, have access to personnel. You probably just need one scientist, maybe not even full time, just to help you mobilize it, but right out of the gate.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 26:56

Unfortunately, in this space, the micro enterprises, the businesses that are not formalized and that's why it's so important too that are not formalized and that's why it's so important too. A lot of businesses cannot access the resources out there with the grant funding, technical support, loans, because they don't even have a formally registered business. Oftentimes that is just a requirement you have to be a registered business and so many entrepreneurs, so many enterprises, don't even have a registered business. You know, I have a very close friend whose partner is a chef, and I went to her house one day and she said try this. And it was like a coconut jam, a coconut jam, a coconut jam. And she gave it to me with crackers and I said this is? I said what is this? I said this is amazing. It is amazing, what is it? And she explains that you know her partner made it and it's something he does in his restaurant. And I said, well, why is this not packaged down on the shelf? Oh, he's no scientist. And I'm saying to myself on the shelf oh, he's no scientist. And he and I'm saying to myself it's like saying, oh, I'm not a plumber, so I'm not going to. You know, wash my dishes, right?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 28:17

I want to start out of this conversation, for those who are listening, to understand that, the same way you can get a plumber to help you fix your pipe, you can get a scientist to help you fix whatever scientific problems you think you have. There are technically trained people out there, scientist, to help you fix whatever scientific problems you think you have. There are technically trained people out there who can help you to bring your ideas to market. So if you are a chef and you make the best barbecue sauce and you think that needs to be bottled and you put it up by the cashier right on the shelf there so when people come to pay their bill, they can also pick up a bottle of barbecue. So you can do it, irrespective of what degree you have behind your name, or if you don't have one at all, you can do it. We're out there to help you.

Natasha Levy: 28:56

So, aisha, I'm hearing some sort of soft skills here. So we know we first identified, go with the scientific methodology, seek advice from the agencies that are out there that can help you know, understand your customer, be committed to this continuous development process and check out there to see what financing options are available. But I think a big takeaway that I just got is that you don't have to be a scientist and you don't have to go it alone. No, not at all, not at all, not at all. I want to switch gears for just a little bit and I wanted to get your perspective on the Food and Drug Act. Food and Drug Act, where does that play a role?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 29:57

or does it play a role if you want to be successful in developing an agribusiness or operate in the agri-processing space? Absolutely it's. You know regulations are a kind of very scary area. You know that many, many of my clients you know they have no idea and you know that's a job we hold as service providers, but it is so very important. If you think about it, when you go into the supermarket and you buy a loaf of bread and you take that home and you, you know you're sharing that out for your family, you have an expectation that that bread will not make you sick. That's true, okay, fair. It is not your job as a consumer person who goes and buys the bread to ensure that the bread is safe. That's the responsibility of the person who makes the bread.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 30:51

Now, how that bread is made, where that bread is made, who makes that bread, there are some special rules that govern those three areas, got you? And what makes the bread bread right? What makes the bread bread? What makes the bread bread? What makes the bread bread Right? And there are certain rules that govern those four areas. It's really four areas the product. The place where the product is made. The people who makes the product and the process through which that product is made, the people who makes the product and the process through which that product is made. Those rules are governed by the Food and Drug Act. Okay, and it's a very complicated legal document that has some regulations, but in essence it basically says any product you put on the market that people are going to consume, whether orally or on their skin, it needs to be safe for their consumption and there are some strict guidelines around that. If you are making bread, you have to have access to potable water. That's what the regulations say. If you have someone who ensures that the bread is always bread and not a cookie, that person should be so trained right to understand those quality standards. When you put bread in a plastic bag, there are certain things that need to be on the label to ensure that the customer the consumer knows exactly what they're buying. These rules and regulations are so very important for consumer safety.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 32:33

And why is consumer safety important for a business? Because if consumers don't feel safe, they're not going to buy. If consumers are confused, they're not going to buy.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 32:45

It is in the commercial interest of every product owner to ensure that they are developing and manufacturing their products in a way that not only ensures that the product is great, tastes great, smells great, makes them look great, makes them healthy, makes them well, but also to ensure that their consumers or users are safe, and the Food and Drug Act are the rules that helps with that. So, if you're interested in going into this space, take the effort and, if it's online, and download the Food and Drug Act and the relevant regulations online and download the Food and Drug Act and the relevant regulations. It governs pharmaceuticals. It governs drugs, which are drugs. It governs foods, it governs cosmetics and now there is a unique space called Natural Health Products, which will also have its own set of rules and regulations, where it basically outlines how does a business ensure that the products that they make and put out there for consumers is safe and is of acceptable quality?

Natasha Levy: 33:54

We spoke earlier about seeking advice. You know, and when we spoke about it earlier we were talking about it in the context of understanding the scientific methodology or just being you know how to go about being systematic in the development of understanding the scientific methodology or just how to go about being systematic in the development of your products. Would it be a correct assumption to say that the entities that are available out there to help you with your methodology might also be able to guide you in terms of how to operate within the food and drug act?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 34:22

And I know there is a narrative. I'm not going to say it's only a narrative. You know Jamaica has some problems, right. But what I like particularly about this platform we Can Do this is that it focuses more on our responsibility to solve the problems as opposed to identify them. Okay, we can solve this. We can solve this, we can solve it right. We just have to solve it and stop talking about what needs to be solved and take our time and solve it right.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 34:48

So there are entities you know, people working hard, people who are available, entities, regulatory agencies that are there to help guide the process. I have found that the JBDC, so the Jamaica Business Development Corporation, has so many programs, most of which it's no cost or minimal cost, to help persons walk through all those different steps of the process. Help persons walk through all those different steps of the process From a quality perspective and safety perspective. The Bureau of Standards is an amazing place as well. Not only do they offer the actual analytical testing, so if you need to test to see if the product has bacteria in it, or if you need to test it to make sure it's not too acidic, they can help with all of that, but they also have training, they also have business development services, and it is available to everyone, anyone, and oftentimes at a minimal cost, at a low cost, at a low cost, relatively low cost, I know, for everybody. You know that's relative right.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 35:54

But you know it is available. The Scientific Research Council is also a very, very instrumental agent, especially if you're interested in the food space and the cosmetic space. They have really invested in a lot of resources and facilities to help entrepreneurs, business owners, to develop and to manufacture their products. When you look from the agricultural side, rada is, even though they, you know, as an entity, they will tend to be more focused on, you know, good agricultural practices as opposed to good manufacturing practices. I have found that those two things work hand in hand. So if you are sourcing raw materials from a farmer to take those to a manufacturing plant, ensuring that they're adhering to these good agricultural practices are going to be very important for that end product, and I find that rather you know.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 36:59

You know, as I said, none of these entities are without their challenges, but you know you have to exhaust what they have to offer before you start to complain. That's my opinion. Exhaust all the opportunities and then you complain okay. And then you say, okay, I need something else and it's not here. But there are many successful brands on the market. We consume them every day, many successful Jamaican brands that are using these same BSJ, src. They're using these government entities. And why? Because they're just doing it. They're not complaining, they're just doing what they have to do, right. And you find those ones that just tend to stay the course really do eventually reap all the success.

Natasha Levy: 37:52

I'm ready for those fish cakes. Yes, I definitely am ready for the fish cakes. I know where I need to start. I need to first of all believe that I don't need to be a scientist. I don't have to go it alone. I need to recognize that. You know, if I'm going to be developing these fish cakes, there has to be some methodology to it, and your last point was really impactful that the truth is that there are lots of organizations out there that can help you solve it. You mentioned JBDC, bureau of Standards, scientific Research Council and RADA, just to name a few. You also mentioned the DBJ from a financing perspective, and you were also very clear that there could be a lot more entities and organizations out there that can help you if you really want to have a successful agri-processing business. Absolutely, I heard that it is possible. It absolutely is possible that we can have more value-added outputs in this area, absolutely, for sure. As we wrap up, any last words that you want to share with us?

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 38:59

yeah, I think maybe more from a less technical perspective, and it's something I'm trying to, you know, incorporate into my own personal life, into my own, you know, kind of business, you know and it's something I heard listening to another podcast you know you're only to look up the hill once. After you look up the hill once and see, you know, that summit that you're trying to reach, after that you just look down at your feet, one step at a time, bringing new products to market. It's not for the squeamish. My math teacher used to say that this is not for the squeamish, right, it is a long game and it is exactly why those who continue that long game, continue to play that long game, are the ones that really, really, you know, tend to dominate in this space. Right? If you think about Jamaican food brands, there are only a handful of them. I never really thought about that. It's not a lot. If you think about Jamaican food brands, there are only a handful of them. I never really thought about that. It's not a lot, yes.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 40:00

And if you think about our entire history I'm not an economist, but think about our history, our development history there has been a handful of industries that have carried our economy that have carried our economy the bauxite industry, the sugar industry, right, the beverages industry or subsectors and if you think about all of these industries, they're really about converting raw material into some value-added goods.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 40:30

Maybe, except for bauxite, it's another story. But if you look at our kind of agribusiness, you look at Red Stripe and you look at True Juice and you look at these few you know few Jamaican brands, it's really about adding value to some agricultural commodity and I do believe we just need a handful more to solve this big development challenge that we have to help to stimulate truly stimulate the economy. We just need a few more, right? We can't still continue to look at our shelves and see imported goods. When I go into a pharmacy, 98% of the products that I use for my family, for our own personal care, are imported goods. Why why? There's absolutely no good reason why Because we have the capacity, the resources. If we're going to import goods, we have to import the raw materials. But let's import the raw materials if we have to.

Dr. Aisha Bailey: 41:29

To make the value-added products here To make the value-added products, and then we can use some ourselves and sell the rest Because the world is waiting, right. And then we can use some ourselves and sell the rest because the world is waiting, right. But it's a long game. I like that. It's a lot to be done. It is not, you know, as simple as buying a car, licensing it and putting a taxi on the road Right, you know not to trivialize that, but it's not that simple a process. It's a long process with lots of steps to get to that hill. Just look up the hill once. Just look at the supermarket shelf and say I want my barbecue sauce on that shelf. And you look once Thereafter. It's just one step in front of the next. First thing I need to do is to understand who went by.

Natasha Levy: 42:13

I definitely like that approach and I think those are great words of wisdom. I mean, the entire conversation was awesome. Aisha, I've definitely learned a lot. I'm really going to try and find that fisherman in Black River to talk about those fish cakes. And she is the founder and principal consultant of MNR Technology and Innovation. Thank you so much for sharing with us this afternoon. Thank you so much, natasha. Thank you Thanks for listening to this podcast of we Can Solve this a Solutions Space podcast. Follow us on socials at we Can Solve this podcast Like, follow, subscribe. We Can Solve this sharing ideas to help build thriving communities wherever you are. Bye.